Serving Up Food Safety

Sanitation. Energy efficiency. Robots. Standards are helping to make the food service industry safer, more efficient, and more productive.

Join host Dave Walsh as he speaks with Charlie Souhrada, vice president, Regulatory & Technical Affairs at North American Association of Food Equipment Manufacturers (NAFEM), and Adam Spitz, commercial food service industry specialist at ICF.

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Presented by ASTM International

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Transcript

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Dave Walsh (00:14):

Welcome to Standards Impact ASTMs Official podcast standards for the food service industry can help prevent contamination outbreaks for consumers and make kitchens more energy efficient for restaurant owners, saving money and making the industry more sustainable. I'm your host, Dave Walsh, editor in Chief of Standardization News, and I'm joined today by two leading food service industry experts. Adam Spitz, commercial food service industry specialist with ICF and Charlie Serta, vice President Regulatory and Technical Affairs, north American Association of Food Equipment Manufacturers. Alright, well Charlie and Adam, thanks for being with us today. We really appreciate it.

Charlie Souhrada (00:52):

Thank you for having us.

Adam Spitz (00:53):

Yep, thank you.

Dave Walsh (00:55):

You're both longtime members of the Food Service Equipment Committee here at ASTM, and you've worked in the industry for a long time. Can you both talk about the scope of your committee and give us some of the history of F 26 and, and maybe we'll start with Charlie for that.

Charlie Souhrada (01:08):

Okay, sure. Well, the committee originated from a request by the US Department of Defense, which wanted methods to compare commercial food service equipment. And from that spark the committee's scope has grown to include all types of food service equipment. Before we kind of get into that, it's really important to appreciate the scope of the commercial food service equipment supplies industry. It's about a $17 billion industry and it represents supplies that go to the food away from home market, which includes corporate, dining, college and university schools, healthcare, correctional facilities, convenience stores and supermarkets, and of course commercial food service establishments that we all know and love. In the us the National Restaurant Association estimates that there are more than 1 million food service establishments and this year the NRA estimates that eating and drinking places will contribute about $1.4 trillion in sales to the US economy. That's roughly equivalent to about 6% of real, uh, GDP. So these numbers illustrate the food service industry's importance and with such a broad scope, it's essentially that we have some type of guardrails or standards like the Department of Defense originally requested. And that's why the work of the F 26 Committee on Food Service equipment is so vital.

Adam Spitz (02:35):

Yeah, and adding onto that, Charlie, just a little background about the F 26 committee on food service equipment, though the industry is quite substantial, as Charlie mentioned with those numbers, those figures are quite staggering, but I, I believe there are currently around 70 to 80 current active committee members on F 26 and, uh, covering approximately 40, maybe a little over 40 standard test methods and specifications. So it's, it's been continuing to grow over year after year and we have, uh, 11 subcommittees tackling food preparation, cooking, holding, displaying, dispensing, cleaning, sanitation, et cetera. So we kind of hit all levels of the kitchen and different equipment categories and not to exclude ventilation as well. So we really do capture the entire commercial kitchen operation in under F 26.

Dave Walsh (03:27):

Well this podcast is obviously focused on food safety as well, so I just wanted to ask you both, um, why are food service standards so important in general, but in a specific sense? What practical impact do they have on food safety?

Adam Spitz (03:42):

So they allow fair and unbiased evaluation of the performance of the equipment. The standardization of the test protocols in a controlled environment gives the industry an opportunity to improve any shortcomings of the expectations of performance. So the F 26 standards for all the cooking holding wear washing categories, for example, have integrated minimum and maximum temperature tolerances, which obviously vary, uh, depending on the category, the temperature thresholds, whether a minimum or a maximum. They're often to reflect how the unit under test is intended to operate upon installation in the field, food safety standards are critical to prevent or mitigate the spread of food board illnesses. Um, accurate temperature controls are a major part of that. So temperature measurement is a, a major aspect of all the cooking holding, whether it's cold or hot wear washing standards, for example, avoiding the danger zone during which I believe is between 40 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit for extended periods of time. So food service equipment standards are the most practical importance to understand the operating profile of any type of CFS equipment, in part for food safety. So that's just an example of where these standards come into play and how they correlate directly with food safety

Charlie Souhrada (05:04):

And food safety. I'll add to what Adam just gave you. Food safety is a great example of the importance of A STM standards. The CDC estimates that about 48 million people get sick, 128,000, uh, are hospitalized and about 3000 die, unfortunately from foodborne illnesses every year in the United States. To be fair, not all of these instances occur in a food away from home setting, but it illustrates that A STM standards are essential in this whole process. As many people listening to this know standards help ensure the quality and consistency of materials and products. So the standards developed by F 26 help address issues like proper handling and storage of food and we can't overestimate the importance of this work.

Dave Walsh (05:56):

In recent times, we've seen events like the e coli outbreak at McDonald's and the listeria outbreak at the Boar's head processing plant dominate the news cycle. And these issues have brought food safety to the forefront. What impact could standards have in preventing such outbreaks and in protecting the consumer or end user in the future?

Charlie Souhrada (06:16):

A couple of weeks ago, F 26 met and the group discussed a range of performance standards for equipment like brazing pans and tilt skillets, griddles ovens, refrigerators, commercial kitchen ventilations, which Adam mentioned earlier, storage and dispensing, even cleaning and sanitation. So all of those tools represent essential appliances that keep this food safe and help operators or the commercial food service establishments serve food safely away from home when and where consumers need it.

Adam Spitz (06:52):

I do think it's important to, to stress against, kind of circling back to the temperature example that I was providing before, but you know, when it comes to something like wear washing equipment, you know, there are so many different strategies to achieve ultimately the same goal, which is to clean wear and sanitize the wear for, for repurpose. For reuse. What I would like to eventually go back and research is during covid times where everybody went to single use back to plastics and non reusables and kind of do a a, an assessment on the negative health or positive health impacts that came out of going back to single use items versus repurposed items and kind of compare where we are now, where we were two years ago versus where we were five years ago. That transition from single use to Reusables had momentum and then when Covid hit, it went the exact opposite direction and it's now coming back again to, to go back to Reusables.

(07:50):

And I think the reason why I bring that up is because on the sanitation, the cleaning, the wear washing side, whether or not it's a high temperature machine that sanitizes using, you know, 180 degree Fahrenheit water or if it's a low temp machine that's chemical sanitizing rinse, either one of 'em does the job. But it'd be interesting to see if there is a direct correlation with some sort of an ELI or listeria or some other salmonella based bacteria transfer from one person or one meal to an next or one plate to an next. Now what's interesting here is you had highlighted the McDonald's example, which don't really typically have any reusable.

Charlie Souhrada (08:28):

You just brought up an interesting point because a few years ago, I think it happened sometime in the nineties, Jack in the Box had an e coli outbreak and that was related to the improper cooking of ground beef. And so think about some of the standards and some of the task groups that F 26 tackles, definitely griddles and skillets are integral into the, the safety of cooking ground beef safely. And here we are about 20 years later, I saw a number of news articles that referenced the Jack in the Box incident in the McDonald's incident that just happened. So while we say, well, memories are short in some cases this is something that sticks with it and it makes a good point that F 26 can help avoid these kinds of situations where an operator might be buying equipment or operating equipment well below what it should be doing. So it illustrates the importance of why these standards are so critical

Dave Walsh (09:32):

As a lay person. Just to follow up on the discussion here about the McDonald's and the listeria outbreak, are these primarily outbreaks that are related to temperature sanitation? Both. Which factors in particular? Cause those?

Charlie Souhrada (09:46):

Uh, a little bit of all. So you suffer from undercooked food. Uh, you could suffer from food that's cross-contaminated food that does not go through uh, the safe zone appropriately. As Adam referenced earlier, cooking food and serving food to consumers is a very delicate balance and it takes a great deal of trust. And so the consumer has to trust that that operator, the restaurant establishment is using the equipment properly. Similarly, the operator has to trust that the equipment was manufactured in such a way that'll help them serve food safely.

Adam Spitz (10:23):

It could also just simply be the source of the produce. And it doesn't have to be, you know, I know a lot of people assume with foodborne illnesses that it's some sort of protein from an animal source or something along those lines and that's the cause, but that's not always the case. I mean, there have been cases where there's recalls all the time on produce onions, romaine lettuce, spinach. It doesn't necessarily mean that it was prepared incorrectly. It could have been something in the distribution channel getting to the restaurant, getting to wherever it's being served and it could just naturally have happened while it was still growing. But that goes also back to F 26 because the equipment used to even, you know, wash your produce. You know, if you do that effectively, you're gonna mitigate the risk of transferring that bacteria to a potential customer.

(11:11):

So in a weird way, there's a lot of connection between the distribution, like you know, here in Sacramento where I'm at, there's a farm to fork capital, right? Well there's a lot that happens even locally from farm to fork and there's a lot of opportunity for mishandling, misp, preparing spoilage. Uh, it can still happen re regardless of where you are in the world. So to the F 26 committee, all the different categories that we cover, it's not just the food preparation, the cooking equipment, it's also the washing equipment. It's the whole process like we had mentioned earlier at the beginning of this podcast is it's more involved than just like, oh, we're just looking at friars and that's it. It's not that simple. It's a lot more holistic than that.

Dave Walsh (11:54):

Many of ASTMs food services standards also address the issue of sustainability largely through energy efficiency. So can you talk about some of the standards that help make commercial kitchen appliances and other equipment more energy efficient?

Charlie Souhrada (12:06):

There's an excellent example of this found in a component inspection program that combines energy efficiency verification testing found in the Energy star program with quarterly product safety factory auditing. That's a a lot of words, but suffice it to say in 2011 an ad hoc group of NAFA members started working with the EPA on this program, which makes the energy star verification process more efficient than having separate energy star and factory safety audit processes. And this combines the results saving manufacturers in particular significant amounts of time and money. And the program was tested with steam cookers or was piloted with that particular product category and approved to be successful. And since then F 26 has partnered with NAFA and EPA to expand the program and keep it moving forward. And so that's very exciting because it represents a way to engage manufacturers and the government entity as well as the standard setting body.

Adam Spitz (13:12):

I think that that is an example of industry coming together through A STM and working with federal government coming up with a solution and or reducing the burden on the industry. So thanks for bringing that up Charlie. I would also say that the Energy Star program and other utility incentive programs in general are also perfect examples. Generally speaking of how the standards further innovation, the standards allow the industry to analyze the performance characteristics of what all the equipment and provides insight on the, uh, potential for areas of improvement. It opens the door to a healthy competitive market which further drives innovation. If you look back a couple of years ago, or decades I should say, at the energy performance of some of the standard equipment used in commercial kitchens, the performance numbers such as like the cooking, energy efficiency and idle rates were so much lower than they are today. So we wouldn't understand that if we didn't have these standard test methods that the industry's worked so hard to develop and maintain over the years. So fortunately we do, and I interpret these standards as like tools or vehicles that have successfully been leveraged by the industry to encourage development of more energy efficient equipment. So without the standards, we wouldn't have that baseline to understand where there are areas for improvement or it would be a little bit more objective and it wouldn't be standardize.

Dave Walsh (14:41):

I think it's, it's important to focus on that productivity and efficiency end of things because being sustainable and being environmentally friendly is important. But I think uh, many business owners would be more concerned with their bottom line and how much more efficient appliances can help them.

Adam Spitz (14:57):

So as I mentioned, the evaluation of performance in a test report based on the execution of a standard presents a lot of information that can benefit a business in this field. For example, choosing the right equipment for your operation is obviously priority number one, but there are a lot of options that can meet your expectations. However, taking into account utility costs like energy, water, sewer production capacity as you mentioned Dave, the throughput, the quality assurance which is measured, you know, perhaps through uniformity, testing, consistency, those are all important considerations. So the standards provide this level of information for a proper evaluation process when purchasing decisions are being made. So as I mentioned, utility cost. If the unit is not energy efficient, this is another example, you're paying more. So then the consideration is perhaps paying a bit more for an energy efficient model upfront, but recognizing the sustained costs or operating costs will be lower.

(15:57):

And the ROI is reasonable enough to where the investment upfront is worth it in the long run. So you know, the saying like a penny saved is a penny earned. It's kinda like that. But like a kilowatt hour saved is a resource acquisition, which is another way of saying you're using the money that you'd be paying anyways for something better or maybe pocketing it. So it goes to your bottom line ultimately when you invest in some of the higher efficient equipment. But again, you wouldn't be able to recognize what's efficient and what's not without these standards. So that's where it all starts

Dave Walsh (16:29):

In the field of food services. And when we think of appliances and all the different elements of a kitchen, I think a lot of people just imagine there's an oven, there's a heater, there's uh, sort of these basic technologies that have existed for many decades. But of course that's not true. There's a lot of new technologies coming down the line that will impact the field and for which standards will be needed. So what does the future hold for the field of food services in general? Where do you see your field in the next 20 to 30 years in terms of new technologies that might disrupt and impact the whole field?

Charlie Souhrada (17:00):

Well, the past few years have been very challenging for the food service industry from an operating standpoint. And despite these challenges, we see continued steady growth in a continued focus on new technologies that'll help food service operators do more in a smaller kitchen space with less labor. And so with that comes more of a reliance on robotics. And that's something that we haven't necessarily started addressing in F 26, but we probably will want to start touching on that because it becomes more and more of a, of a need for the industry. I think standards will be critical to this evolution because the need to measure and compare performance, whether it's if you're cooling something appropriately or cooking it thoroughly, you've gotta be able to measure that and compare that performance in a such a way that makes sense. Same thing for robotics. Is the robot treating that food appropriately? Is it flipping the pizza? Is it putting the right amount of sauce on the dough? So all those things are critical and that'll help those operators get more bang for the buck. So robotics is a great example of how technology will continue to change in our industry.

Adam Spitz (18:13):

We're on the same page here 'cause I I was thinking the exact same thing 'cause we recently convened for A-S-T-M-F 26 and, and I started thinking after that that we still have not really begun the discussion on what ai, what robotics specifically, how that's going to impact the kitchen operation, the design of the kitchen. I mean, I think we've both been on factory tours where we've seen kind of a hybrid of commercial food service equipment being constructed, manufactured and at the facilities and even those that use robotics, they're isolated. It's not a combination here and there. It's not something where the human workers, the staff putting together their portions of the equipment, they're not directly working with the robotic department that is isolated. And I'd be curious if this becomes more and more common, which I anticipate it will, if we introduce these mechanical electric robots to, to the kitchen, is there gonna be some sort of a barrier?

(19:14):

Is there a safety concern that needs to be addressed? And not only that, but when it comes to testing the equipment for per A STM standards, are we going to have to somehow change all these standards such that it's operating based on how a robotic mechanism would be operating it or do we bypass that and what's the energy impact labor costs as mentioned earlier, that's one of the reasons why I, I think we're seeing sort of a, a very slow because of the cost associated with it, I assume transition to a more robotic kitchen. But I just been curious what are the implications of that from an energy perspective. All this stuff we have not begun to really dive into, but I think that's something that we're going to, uh, need to have a hard long conversation about it F 26. And then I think there's one other element, Charlie, and I apologize if you mentioned this, but another factor to consider would be the real estate costs.

(20:09):

Um, I think the theme of doing more with less is kind of something we can expect to continue to see consolidation of equipment versatility and food preparation efficiency. And then the only other thing that I wanted to quickly mention was staff turnover over the years. Staff turnover has always been a barrier in the kitchen management and it's something that management has always had to deal with over the years, but we've seen some really cool innovations that allow for faster new staff training, simple technology upgrades that, you know, instead of changing oven settings and needing to understand the humidity levels and for which meal you're preparing, it's been simplified. Manufacturers have come to the table with basically like touch screens based on, you know, whatever menu item you're preparing. So we've seen innovations like that, which is pretty cool. It's a time saver, it's a cost saver and it helps with consistency and quality assurance. So there's a lot of benefits to that.

Dave Walsh (21:04):

It's interesting because of course A STM has a robotics committee and that's F 45. They do all sorts of standards in that area. Not to hold you both to this, but do you see the potential for a collaboration with either them or another internal committee at A STM just to bring in that expertise on the area of robotics?

Charlie Souhrada (21:21):

Oh, I think it's essential. I, I think it's a step that our segment of the industry would probably learn an awful lot from that exposure because not to disrespect our industry, we're somewhat allergic to technology. I mean that in a very affectionate way. Typically the people who make the equipment are really good at bending metal and making it do something. But the operator community is equally concerned about things such as too much technology on a piece of equipment in a very unforgiving environment. Think about a commercial kitchen, it's, it's hot, it's wet, the staff turns over like Adam mentioned, and they don't necessarily treat the equipment with a great deal of care and comfort. So that kind of speaks to a concern from the operators to say, you know what, I really don't want an awful lot of bells and whistles on this piece of equipment. I just wanted to turn on and turn off and do what it's supposed to do. So incorporating another A STM committee into the conversation so that we could learn from them rapidly and move it forward that much faster. Seems like a great idea.

Dave Walsh (22:37):

Here's a bit of a wild card question. F 26 has many standards and they cover a variety of areas as we've been discussing in this event. But if you could choose one, which one standard would you choose as the most important or most impactful standard that in your opinion, uh, that affects the food service industry?

Charlie Souhrada (22:55):

That's not fair, Dave. That's like saying which child you like best <laugh>,

Adam Spitz (23:00):

There is no answer to that question where you would not get away without somebody chasing you down saying, why'd you say it? Why'd you say that one and not this one? <laugh>. So we're in hot water regardless, so maybe take the fifth on that, but, uh, <laugh>.

Charlie Souhrada (23:17):

Alright, I can talk about some of the other, another committee that is important that really doesn't get a lot of fanfare and that's a committee on lifecycle and it kind of alludes to a question that, uh, you might ask, which is how do the standards assess productivity and profitability and sustainability? This particular task group was established about 10 years ago. NAFA and A STM developed a standard way to compare sustainability aspects of food service equipment. And the standard establishes ways to measure and report carbon footprint, environmental impact and sustainability elements. So all those are vitally important and this provides manufacturers ways to report the results to customers who use these tools. And it actually is in response to, or actually was created in response to a request by operators who wanted this kind of a system. So AFAM took the idea to A STM and we decided that yes, the idea has legs and we developed this task group and the task group came up with a spreadsheet calculator that scores a piece of equipment based on all these different factors, including the manufacturing process, use phase packaging and disposal phase of a product at the end of life all based on A-S-T-M-F 26 test procedures.

(24:42):

And this is especially critical as customers focus on sustainability and compliance regulations related to ESG reporting or green building certifications through a group like U-S-G-B-C. So I, I wouldn't say that's my favorite task group, but I'd say it's one that flies under the radar quite a bit and it deserves a lot of fanfare because it's very topical.

Dave Walsh (25:04):

Well, I do have an easier question for the two of you. And it involves students and early career professionals, which is a group that A STM is always reaching out to. That's the next generation of members and they're, they're desperately needed to keep every organization healthy. So what would each of you say to a student or early career professional considering joining A STM and specifically becoming part of your committee in F 26?

Adam Spitz (25:27):

Uh, absolutely get engaged sooner than later. When I first started getting more on the technical side in the food service industry, I, um, I was not initially part of A STM, however, I was in a lab performing A STM tests on the cooking equipment at the food service technology center. And that's when I first kind of became introduced to A STM. Fast forward a few years, I actually joined A STM and once I joined, I uh, had the opportunity to engage with some more senior seasoned veterans in the industry that served as mentors, including Charlie of course, who had been with a STM much longer. And we've developed relationships over the years and fostered them. It's a very collaborative group of people at F 26. We work really well together. I think it's a fantastic opportunity for, especially if you're just starting out in your career for networking, but also understanding the technical side of how standards are developed, how specifications are developed and what their purposes are used for, much of which we've discussed today. And even if food safety isn't like the reason why you're going into food service, it's still related. You can't get away from it. There's a, everything is in intertwined in the food service industry and it all comes together with these kind of groups like F 26 at A STM. So I would highly encourage anyone interested to take advantage of any opportunity to get engaged with not just our committee, but any A STM committee relevant to your area of interest.

Charlie Souhrada (26:59):

I'm in violent agreement with Adam in a STM committee could serve as rocket fuel for someone's career. It's, uh, involvement in standards developments process is probably one of the best ways that a young person can learn what's important to the industry. How do they gauge what are the selling features, what are the features that are absolutely critical that play a role in a product, whether it's something like commercial food service equipment or even something like plastics or petroleum, an involvement in F 26 or any other A STM committee is also, like Adam mentioned, a great way to develop a network of people that you can go to for answers, whether it is during a committee meeting or outside of a committee meeting. And that network can play a vital role in terms of both personal and professional benefits. So I would strongly encourage anybody to get involved as soon as they can because it'll help make a huge difference in your career.

Dave Walsh (27:58):

Well amazingly, we are coming to the end of our time here. And before we go though, I just wanted to say thank you to both of you, Adam and Charlie for, uh, spending some time with us. We really appreciate it and hopefully we'll talk to you soon. Great. Thanks Dave.

Adam Spitz (28:12):

Yeah, thank you Dave.

Dave Walsh (28:17):

If you wanna learn more about any of the standards discussed in this episode, visit astm.org for all the latest. And if you enjoyed the show, remember to like and subscribe so you'd never miss an episode. I'm Dave Walsh and this has been Standards Impact presented by A STM International.